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| Justin Rocke, Brooklyn Cyclones |
The Mets Minor League Broadcasters feature guys that know Mets prospects better than anyone. They are also great to talk baseball with.
During the last week of the Brooklyn 2024 Season, I had the privilege to sit down with Cyclones announcer Justin Rocke. We talked about Brooklyn's Season, Mets Prospects and recent Minor League trends.
John From Albany: How do you think the 2024 season's gone for Brooklyn?
Justin Rocke: It's been a pretty successful season. It's been a lot of ups and downs...various different reasons with injuries, a little bit different this season as well with new front office and philosophies in terms of promoting guys. We've had a lot of guys move up this year. Not that we didn't have guys move up last year, but I think, after Jonah [Tong] went up the other day, I think we're now at 17 guys that have been promoted from here to Binghamton throughout the course of the year, April 27th until Sunday [September 1st]. I think [Brooklyn Cyclones Manager] Gilbert's and the coaching staff's done a great job of keeping guys involved, enthused and engaged throughout the course of the season...They've done a good job of finishing the season strong, a lot of guys are playing some of their best ball of the season over the last couple of weeks.
The story continues to be the pitching in the organization, top to bottom. Last night was the 13th shutout of the season for us, which continues to add to the franchise record, which is mighty impressive. The last couple of years, pitching-wise, and the organization has been really, really impressive.
John From Albany: You talk about the big changes from this year to last year. Besides the promotions and the way they tried to be more aggressive with that, what else do you see was a big difference this year?
Justin Rocke: I
think, honestly, the biggest difference was that they were a little bit
more aggressive promoting guys up and down through the minor league system,
particularly promoting guys from here up to double-A and beyond. I mean, you know, Sproat's already up in Triple-A, sort of like Scott started
here last year and finished up in Triple-A by the end of the season.
I haven't see much change
organizational philosophy-wise outside of maybe the fact that they have been more inclined to let guys go past their innings limits than they had in
years past. It was obviously top-down line as recently as last
week, you know, or is Jonah [Tong] even going to throw this week, because he's
already shut down. And obviously, it's not the case, because he's now
pitching in Binghamton with an extra week in their season.
I think they've done a good job of monitoring that stuff, while also allowing guys to push themselves a little bit more, which, quite frankly, I think to a certain degree, you need to do in order for guys to go deeper in ball games, last longer into the season and stuff like that.
JFA: Who would you say are the biggest stars in the team that, if you say tell me about the 2024 Brooklyn Cyclones, who are the first players that would come to mind?
Justin Rocke: I think it's sort of told in a tale of two parts. First half of the season, and really the first two months was Brandon Sproat, Ryan Clifford and Nolan McLean, and what they were doing here. Since the middle of May, early June, and beyond, it's been Nick Morabito and Jonah Tong and the success stories of what the Mets Player Development have been able to do with those two guys throughout the course of the year. Went from being top 100 prospect guys that are potentially going to knock down the doors to the big leagues, to guys that were maybe not as well known going into the season that have established themselves as real players in the organization.
I'd be stunned if Morabito is not the player of the year in the organization. [Editor's Note: Outfielder Nick Morabito was named the organization's Player of the Year on September 20, 2024.]
JFA: And who, and who should be the Pitcher? Sproat or Tong?
Justin Rocke: That's going to be a toss-up. Numbers-wise, you probably have to go Tong, but what Sproat's been able to do, Sproat's unequivocally the better pitcher.
JFA: So, outside of the big names that everybody knows about, who would you say is the next player that you would want to mention as somebody that people should really be aware of?
Justin Rocke:I mean, obviously, [Boston] Baro and [Ronald] Hernandez are dudes, but they haven't been here for very long. You know, I think a guy that's going to be very interesting to follow, especially the start of next year, because he'll probably be back here to start the year, is Chris Suero. Just a stupid good athlete, you know, had a really tough chunk of his time here, but has found a way to stay with it, and has, heated back up again over the last couple of weeks to finish out the year, which is very impressive.
JFA: Where do you see him in the future, his everyday position? You think he'll be a catcher, first base, outfielder?
Justin Rocke:I can honestly see him being more like, you know, a little bit of a Daulton Varsow type, a guy that can play infield and outfield, but does a lion's share of his play behind the plate. He's a ridiculously good defender at first base, for a guy that doesn't take a lot of ground balls there...and same thing sort of applies for him in left field. He's done a nice job in those spots.
JFA: That's right, I've seen him make some really nice plays on, just on TV, in left field. So, I'm just curious about the catching aspects, because that's a key thing. If you can catch...
Justin Rocke: Let's put it this way, he's, you know, between him and [recently released Brooklyn Catcher Chris] Pregent, he's absolutely a better defender. I think Pregent's better at managing a pitching staff, but Pregent can't throw. Suero's the only guy on the team that's thrown out base runners.
JFA: And, well, I guess we'll see how [C Ronald] Hernandez...
Justin Rocke: Hernandez has been better. He hasn't thrown anyone out, but he's, you know, the play he made on Sunday night was...absurd.
JFA: Are you talking about the throw from Omar [De Los Santos]? Yeah, that was great. [You can see the play and Game Recap by clicking here.]
Justin Rocke: That was amazing. And
then he dove to third base. To get the guy at third, yeah, it was insane.
JFA: Who is the, out of the different players here, who would you say is the biggest clubhouse leader? I asked Keith Raad that question when he was here a few years ago...he said then it was Francisco Alvarez...and you can see it now in the major leagues, how he handles the pitching staff.
Justin Rocke: No, that's very true. I don't know if there's necessarily one guy that sort of, you know, rallies the troops... You know, honestly, who I thought that was in terms of just like a guy that hyped people up before he got traded was Wilfredo Lara. Before Suero had the walk-off hit and the crazy comeback against Jersey Shore, Lara stood there before he walked to first base [after an intentional walk] and literally just stood there to fire Suero up before he stepped into the box. [You can read more about this game by clicking here.]
But I don't know if there really is one static guy that's a clubhouse leader. I think there's a lot of guys that get along well with one another. There's a lot of cohesion in the clubhouse, but I don't know, I mean, Johnny [Brooklyn Cyclones co-Announcer Johnny Gadamowitz], you can correct me if I'm wrong...I don't know if there's anyone that's really, you know, your prototypical leader. There were guys that earlier in the season that people gravitated to in terms of advice...the Stanley Consuegras, the Mateo Gils of the world, guys that had been around...especially when there was a portion of the season where we had a big chunk of older players and younger players. I think it's more of guys leading by example and doing things the right way. I do think there are some similarities in terms of just demeanor and stuff like that between Morabito and Jett to a certain degree. I haven't seen like your rah-rah leader guy that's going to start a players-only meeting and stuff like that.
JFA: Well, probably with the flux of personnel, it's probably hard.
Justin Rocke: I think that's a
huge part of it. It's extremely hard to create a rhythm and a rapport and stuff like that because,
you know, guys are moving up, they're moving down, they're all over the place.
JFA: What do you think is the biggest surprise? Was there any play that surprised you during the year?
Justin Rocke: Any play that surprised me? I think Nick Lorusso
was someone that really, obviously, burst onto the scene. I mean, guy
that didn't sign for a whole lot of money last year and could have very easily had like a Chase Estep kind of season, end up being released at the end of the year. By analytics, [Lorusso] has had as good a season, if not the best season, of any Mets minor
leaguer.
So he was someone that
definitely burst onto the radar. Honestly, talking to a lot
of folks, Jonah Tong was a guy that they did not expect to have
the season he has had. People said, if you would
have told me in March that Jonah was going to finish the season in
double-A, they probably wouldn't have believed you.
That's where, you know, it's been such a massive success for what the pitching lab and really what the coaching has done top to bottom in the organization. To see guys like him burst onto the scene this year.
But anyone else that comes, you know, to mind outside of that, to a certain degree as well, Dakota Hawkins. He was an undrafted guy, has been extremely versatile throughout the course of the year. I don't think we expected him to as important to the pitching staff as he's been all season long.
Another wild card name to throw in there is Eduardo Herrera. The fact that he was a guy that was cut from an organization and all of a sudden now he's one of our more reliable relievers since the All-Star break. It's interesting to follow. I don't know how he'll play as he continues to climb the ladder, but, he's definitely been a guy that I don't think a lot of people expected him to have the success that he's had since they signed him.
JFA: They did something with him to get him to do a lot better. (14:30) He's been great. And what about another signee that came from Independent Ball, who's now at double-A, Jonathan Pintaro?
Justin Rocke: He was interesting. He got off to a slow start, and honestly, it was sort of a bumpy start in terms of just bad luck. I remember one of his first starts in Hudson Valley, he pitched well, got the first two guys out in innings, and then the defense would botch a play, and then it would turn a 1-2-3 inning into an inning that just didn't end. He just continually got better as his time here continued, obviously to the point where he finished his season in triple-A.
It was interesting to see him continue to progress during his time here, especially considering he was a guy that not much was expected from the sort of guy. I'm sure they just anticipated to try and eat some innings and obviously finished his time here on an extremely high note.
JFA: When I've seen him pitch, he seems to get, as the game goes on, get stronger and stronger, pitch, you know, harder and harder as the game goes on, it's a throwback almost.
Justin Rocke: No, exactly that. He knew how to locate his pitches a heck of a lot better than some of the other guys I've seen out of Independent Ball this year. Some of which tried to kill Nick Morabito.
JFA: Was there anybody that you saw was, that improved a lot over the course of the year? Who would you say was most improved?
Justin Rocke: Most improved? Interesting question. There are a lot of guys that got better as the season went along, or whose numbers that, you know, sort of belie their success. I think someone like Ryan Ammons is an interesting name in that regard. Especially lately, the big story with him, his walk rate for the season is up around 16, but he's only walked two in his last five outings combined. So, to see his command continue to get better has opened up a lot for him in that regard.
And I don't know if you can say he's necessarily gotten better because he spent most of the year hurt, but the way D'Andre Smith has finished the season has been incredibly, incredibly impressive when you consider how much time he's missed the last two years between, his back, his hamstring, the whole shebang.
JFA: So what about Justin Lawson? Since July, he's been lights out. Did he make any adjustments or something?
Justin Rocke: It's been an interesting season for Lawson in the sense that he got off to a very good start. April, did not allow an earned run in nine innings, and then from the beginning of May until the middle of June, really struggled. He was giving up a run every time out, things like that. And then in the middle of June, he had a really bad outing in Hudson Valley. He came back out next time, pitched much better from there since the 15th of June. He's got a .46 ERA since the All-Star break, and since that June 15th date, his ERA has been .84 in 18 outings, over 30 innings of work.
So, he had a little blip on the radar in the middle of the season, but something clicked back into place for him, and he's been as reliable of a reliever as there's been in the league all year.
JFA: He looked great last night.
Justin Rocke: Hardly any
better than he was, three up, three down, three Ks, that'll play every time.
JFA: Is there anybody that's underrated that you would say on the team that some people should pay attention to and they're not?
Justin Rocke: There's some interesting
characters. Suero is a guy that people are not paying a whole lot of
attention to, that is a guy I can see being a top-20 prospect in New
York by the end of next year. Felipe de la Cruz I think is a guy that's
going to be interesting to follow once they finally make the decision
to move him to the bullpen full-time.
Douglas Orellano was very impressive when healthy, that's unfortunately been a big if throughout the course of the year, but Zach Thornton has been very interesting since joining us. He's only walked two in 24 and two-thirds innings since being up here.
And it seems like something's clicked for Lionel Ovalles. He's, including Sunday, thrown now, 10 and a third consecutive scoreless. Last seven outings, a .61 ERA for a guy that's been a fringe top-30 guy over the last couple of years.
I mean, even to a certain degree, Morabito and Baro are still a little under the radar, just in the sense that they're not really household names yet, I want to say, in terms (21:48) of just prospect coverage.
JFA: Morabito, well, I guess people have been following him, because he's had such a great year, but Baro's been under the radar.
Justin Rocke: For a guy that started the year in extended spring training, he was among the big leaders in a lot of offensive categories down there.
JFA: Morabito has been outstanding and incredibly consistent and his defense has been very good in the left field. Has he been as prolific in center field and right field?
Justin Rocke: I'd say he's been better, in center and left, and sometimes in right. Because I don't know how well his arm plays out there in right field. He does have four outfield assists, but he hasn't had one in a while. But he's definitely made some very nice plays in center field, coming in on balls, going back on balls.
JFA: What do you think about challenge system, the ABS challenge system, and Robo-umps? Do you think next year they're going to try to make it more widespread in the minor leagues?
Justin Rocke: I wouldn't be shocked. I know a lot of the stadiums in this
league already have the technology to, I think, put it into play with
the Hawkeye system, but I think the challenge system is coming sooner rather than later.
I think it's the most seamless of all the things that they have right now, when it comes to that sort of technology. It's quick, it's relatively efficient. But how quickly it comes, I'm not entirely sure, but I do think that when that does become a thing, I think it will be the challenge system, it won't be straight robo-umps. Although I do somewhat agree with the point someone I know from the Reds minor leagues made...that if you believe in the system working with the challenge system, why would you not just use that strike zone the whole time? I think to a certain degree it's people wanting to keep the human elements in the game.
JFA: The
problem with ABS is that straight robo-umps seems to miss the high strikes.
Justin Rocke: There were still some times with the strike zone that there were certain calls that made you go, I don't know about that. I also did see it the first year it was in play, and they changed the zone a little bit at one point during the season, and it was just a complete mess after it went from one to the other.
JFA: Do you think it makes it very tough on the pitchers when they pitch one style as they have the challenge system in the Florida State League, but not in high A and then double A, and when they get to triple A, it becomes that much more of a challenge. Not only is the challenge system used each game, but it's a different baseball.
Justin Rocke: I think it's probably more of a different baseball than anything else. I mean, I think it's also a certain degree of, that, you need time to adapt to it as well. A lot of guys have played with the system before, whether it be in the Florida State League or wherever else. So, I think a lot more guys are getting acclimated to it. But it's interesting. I haven't had enough time to sort of delve into the numbers and sort of see what the differences are, splits-wise.
I think the other aspect of it is, for the most part, is there's just a lot of guys at triple A that are quadruple A players, both pitchers and hitters who have a really good understanding of the strike zone. And so, some of the younger guys that are just getting up there like [Blade] Tidwell and [Brandon] Sproat, you know, have had some lumps getting acclimated because some of these guys, especially at triple A, have been up there the whole season. And one thing I noticed when I was working in the Florida State League, when they had the automated system, is I think it did help to a certain degree. The umpires and the hitters have a better understanding of what the strike zone is. And so when you've got guys that are already sort of savvy with that, and all of a sudden it becomes more exactly defined, they'll be able to manipulate this system a little bit better with that, if you know what I mean.
JFA: Right, because the OPS numbers in international leaguers are a lot higher than the rest of baseball.
Justin Rocke: Yeah, no, so it's very interesting to see, you know. I'm curious how it differs from, say, the International League as opposed to the Florida State League.
JFA: Yeah, I don't see the, you know. Florida State League pitchers have so much issues with control to begin with.
Justin Rocke: Yeah, I mean, that was a disaster the first year they had it. When, you know, it was just strictly that, especially the first year after COVID. I mean, there was one game we played against St. Lucie. We lost, I remember the date. I need to find out what, I need to find the box score, because it was the most, it was the last game I didn't travel for before I started doing road games again that year. (6:03) And it's the only time in my life I was like, I'm glad I did not call this game. St. Lucie beat us 15 to 3. How many hits do you think St. Lucie had in that game?
JFA: Five.
Justin Rocke: You were close. Six. They had 15 runs on six hits. We walked 18 batters and hit another three.
JFA: Overall, how would you put the organization as far as health? Do you think they're on the right path?
Justin Rocke: I do. I think there's probably a little bit to be desired in terms of hitting development. But, what they've been able to do with the pitching staff over the last couple of years has really been impressive. They just keep churning guys out left and right. The big thing this year was just guys weren't healthy. That was the biggest issue with a lot of the big name position player prospects. Just guys weren't healthy. It'll be a lot more interesting to see how it develops now that [President of Baseball Operations David] Stearns is in charge of everything. And I think there were some probably some pretty big misses in the draft and international under previous regimes.
JFA: Thank you Justin. Tremendous insight into the Mets Minor League operations and system.
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